Season 2 - Episode 4: Leadership Through Change and Transformation

Segment 1: Introduction

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

Welcome back to The Dang Good Show. C-Dang here with part four of our series with Ras Contractor. Now, leadership and change, two words that can strike fear into the hearts of even the most seasoned professionals. Today, we're exploring how to lead effectively when everything around you is shifting. And more importantly, how to do it without burning yourself or your team out in the process.

Ras has guided organizations through major transformations, including helping leaders transition from being stuck in operations to actually leading strategically. We'll discuss different leadership styles, how to have those uncomfortable conversations that need to happen, and what it really means to lead by example when it comes to wellness and resilience. If you're in any kind of leadership role, formal or informal, this conversation will give you practical tools for navigating change while keeping your team intact. Welcome back, Ras!

Ras Allah Contractor

Hey there everybody, thank you for having me. Episode four, here we go.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

All right, so as I mentioned in the other episode, this is my favorite to talk about. This is one of my favorite topics to talk about because I really think leading by example is the way of the future and I hope everyone will do this. So let's set the context for leadership in turbulent times. The first question I have for you Ras is how has leadership evolved in the burnout era?

Ras Allah Contractor

So I don't really want to refer to this as the burnout era because I think people have been burning out for as long as time has been around in different ways, in different forms and different functions. Like, let's put it this way, chronic stress has always been a thing. Chronic disease has always been a thing. It's being exacerbated kind of in different areas, but it's always been around. So our habits as a society worsen and then special interests take control of information and then recommendations and solutions become wrong and haywire and then it just exacerbates the problem.

But first let's talk about the history of leadership, right? So as we know it, probably we think of leaders as like, hey, get this done, right? Military style. And then what we're recognizing is that especially outside of life or death situations, we actually need to be a little more collaborative as leaders. We need to assess the state of our team, assess the state of the task and assess the needs of the long-term. And so in order to do that, we are going to end up being more self-aware as leaders, mindful as leaders, and flexible, nimble, to be able to decide, okay, now I need to make things happen, and then now I can be a little more receiving of what's going on.

So what we can definitely agree is that leadership needs to be mindful and dynamic. And that is going to be a much more powerful model than just naturally leading the way that you think you need to lead all the time.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

So when it comes to leadership, people are always kind of doubting themselves too. Are they doing the good thing or a bad thing for the team? So what mistakes do well-meaning leaders make?

Ras Allah Contractor

Let's keep it simple. Well-meaning leaders will either over-represent the interests of the company rather than the interests of their team or over-represent the interests of the team rather than the interests of the company. And both of those end up in a bad state because you're unbalanced. You overemphasize the needs of the company, the team burns out. Over-emphasize the needs of the team, the company is going to start to hemorrhage money. So what you want to do is assess the needs of the situation. The team is healthy. The company needs some help. We need to work hard. The company is now stable. The team's a little tired. Let's take the foot off the gas. Being able to ebb and flow as they say.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

This reminds me of parents who love their kids so much they either become helicopter parents or the opposite, so hands off that the kids feel neglected. Both come from a place of genuine care, but the execution misses the mark. So I've seen this play out in workplaces too. There are leaders who are so protective of their team that they shield them from any corporate pressure, essentially creating this bubble. The team loves them, but suddenly the department is completely out of sync with the company's goals and everyone's blindsided when restructuring happens.

Then there's the flip side, the leader who's so focused on hitting targets and pleasing upper management that they don't notice their team is burning out until people start quitting. They genuinely thought they were being good leaders by delivering results. It's like trying to balance on a seesaw, lean too far either way and someone's getting launched into the air. The well-meaning intention is there, but without that constant checking and adjusting you mentioned, without really understanding the full picture, even the best intentions can create chaos. Is that why taking stock of the details is so crucial? Because good intentions without awareness of impact can be just as damaging as bad leadership.

Ras Allah Contractor

Absolutely, the devil's in the details. That's the saying and it's true. We need to get down at the details to really figure out where the devil is. At the same time, intentions are just that, intentions. I intended to make you feel good, but you didn't, so the fact is I didn't make you feel good. It doesn't really matter what my intentions are. So depending on the situation, someone messed up here.

Segment 2: Leadership Styles That Heal vs. Harm

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

Now, I love what you said there and it just kind of leads up to the next part, which we're going to talk about leadership styles that heal versus harm. So let's explore the different approaches and their impacts. My first question is, how do you help leaders find their authentic style?

Ras Allah Contractor

Self-discovery is the root of all things. If you understand yourself, your values, what you like, what you don't like, what energizes you, what pulls your energy away, you're going to be set up to be an awesome leader.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

So what does that process look like and how does it make them feel?

Ras Allah Contractor

It depends on the human. So the self-discovery process could be fun. It could be painful. It could be jarring. It could be traumatic. It just depends on sort of where they are in their own life's journey. You know, I'm not going in to blow up people's lives, but take an audit of the things you like, the things you don't like, your priorities in life. What are you good at? What are you not good at? You know, what does your day look like? What's your vision for now and in the future?

Personally and professionally, how is stress manifesting in your life? So those are some topical ways that, without getting too personal, we can take stock of where things are at.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

And so with that, what's the connection between leader wellness and team performance?

Ras Allah Contractor

So a wellness focused leader who is a good leader, so therefore also running a healthy team in business systems processes, is going to have a high performing team. And if they're not wellness focused, then they will have a sometimes high performing team and sometimes problems.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

I feel like there's a story out of this. So can you share a transformation story of a burnt out leader?

Ras Allah Contractor

Sure. So, let's say that in a situation where I was able to get a leader out of the day to day, what they did with their time wasn't the best thing for them. So they just kind of went down, you're focusing on the wrong things and it's not going to serve you in the long run. And so it kind of went on for a bit and then it took sort of a very big financial decision to wake them up and start to look at the situation.

Properly pulled them away from the bad habits and try to make the right decision. Self admittedly they made the wrong decision but sort of came around and they were able to fix some stuff together. What it takes is if you're burning out and you're not aware of it, someone needs to be there to pull you back. Who is in your circle? Who's paying attention to you? Who's there to notice that you're going off the deep end and say hey come back?

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

That just brings me back to basically bringing our listeners to understand that leaders are just human beings as well. They're always constantly struggling. They're always constantly questioning themselves and they're always trying to figure out ways to best present themselves and also help their team in the long run. So I think you kind of explained that in what you just said, that leadership, anyone in leadership, they're not perfect. There's always going to be mistakes and just understanding that they're always trying to figure things out the best way possible is to give them the benefit of the doubt kind of way, right?

Ras Allah Contractor

I've been through the doubt, understanding they're humans, just like you mentioned before, like someone's thrown a tantrum, they're just having a childish response to things. So, compassion, but at the same time, being kind, and sometimes stern, and helping them get away from the behaviors that are not serving them.

Segment 3: Change Management That Works

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

So that just kind of comes into us talking about change management that works. So addressing the resistance and fear, for example. Why do 70% of change initiatives fail?

Ras Allah Contractor

Most likely it's going to be a lack of consultation with the stakeholders. So if change is top-down rolled out, then you're not understanding what's going on on the ground floor, out in the field. The boots on the ground piece, the people who are executing the actual deliveries, you need to understand what's going on there. And that's impossible unless you've consulted with them. So you need to do the discovery. You need to understand what people need, what people want to see, what people don't like that's going on and then from there you roll out change that is complimentary, collaborative, and then you're also iterating. Roll something out. This isn't having the intended consequence. Outcome, we need to roll it back.

I've seen, you know, we're doing this and it's literally adding something that's the same thing as something else just because the data set's easier to use at another place. You gotta be kidding me, like we're already slammed on the ground floor and you want to add more just because you want some data? No, that's not how we do this. And I did work hard to remove that portion of it and you just gotta make sure you know what you need to accomplish.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

That's so true. I think it's so important. This is something I always kind of talk about too and preach with different companies I work with. It's where when working with leadership and management and they are asking for certain changes, what they think. And then I always ask them, do you know what's actually happening in what everyone else is doing? Like all your employees, do you know exactly what's going on and the pipeline and how it goes through and all that stuff? And when they kind of blank out. I ask them again, like, so this is where we need to focus on is by asking certain questions and following, even shadowing what the day to day work looks like in people with what they do. Because if you don't understand that concept, then it's kind of hard to create change and make a process better, right? Without asking questions and actually going in there and seeing how the ease and flow works and whatnot.

So then that kind of talks about, goes into one other question that I have is that how do you get buy-in from skeptical stakeholders?

Ras Allah Contractor

Let's just assume that everybody is going to be a skeptic for change because change is difficult and we like to do things the way that they were always done. New things are hard and unknown and we don't know how this is going to turn out. So let's take the selfish approach. Here's how this change benefits you. And so you're going to have a better situation at the end of it. And if not, then we won't stick with the change. That's the conversation. If you run into a roadblock there, you're going to have to kind of escalate and continue to talk. Ultimately, I think, you know, if you don't try to slam it through, then a skeptic becomes your partner in the whole process.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

That's true too. So Ras, based on what you just said, just for our listeners to understand, can you tell the like the average or the process that you normally do just so they understand the whole workflow there?

Ras Allah Contractor

For sure. So put it this way, if you don't collaborate with every person that's affected by the possible change, then you're going to run the risk of friction. And then friction unaddressed is going to lead to some type of sticking point burnout, and that's going to cause a problem, either the team or organizational and possibly and definitely an individual level. So my philosophy is that you first have to take an assessment of what we're trying to accomplish as a result of change.

And then from there, you've got to look at the current process and who's involved. And then if you're going to develop a new process, you have to bring those people into the discussion so that they understand, we're trying to do this differently. This is the outcomes that we're looking to get. This is what we're doing right now. Let's figure out how to get this outcome. And most of the time, if people are involved from the start and you make it clear and take baby steps, again, we go back to the beginning of Kaizen or just taking micro steps forward, then you're going to make it such that it's not a gargantuan task, but you have a defined plan to get to where you need to get to as an organization.

So I know I'm going to sound a little bit like, is it all just the same thing? But yes, it's all the same thing. If you're dealing with a health problem, you're dealing with an organizational development problem, you're dealing with an onboarding problem, a specific system or technology rollout, you have to understand where you're at, you understand where you're going and you have to work with the group that is going to be affected by the change and take baby steps towards the final outcome.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

Thanks for painting that picture for everyone. I think that also answers my question with like every stakeholder matters philosophy that you just mentioned there. Now with that in mind, how can, can you discuss removing leaders from operations? Like the CEO, like transitions kind of deal? Like how did it affect them personally and how did it make them feel?

Ras Allah Contractor

Very simply the reason that someone comes to me and says hey can you look at this is because they're not happy with the way things are. Like if things are great like you're probably not talking to me and know it's interesting I've actually gone to this journey of like you know it might be more effective to work with teams that are already doing great but like then what am I really doing there? Actually to be honest with you a team that's doing great, you know, install some assessments, some systems, some processes, a little bit of health and wellness, you take good to great. But such is life. My 12 plus years of working with teams has typically been there's a problem that's coming up in conversation and as we get to know each other, it becomes apparent that I have the solution to the problem.

So I start with that. Basically, you have to convince them that the solution to the problem that you came to me to solve in the first place is taking this step. I know it's uncomfortable. I know you don't want to do this. I know you're scared about what's going to happen. Here are some of the ways we're going to mitigate those fears. Here are some of the ways that we're going to set up the basket to catch what you think is going to fall apart when you move away from what you're doing and do something different. And often, it's never as bad as what they thought and in fact it's always much better.

So taking that same approach, going back to talking to the skeptic, whether they're a skeptic or a believer, what's in it for them? This is how your situation improves drastically because the whole reason that we're working on this is because what you're doing right now hasn't worked or isn't working right now and you have a future state that is really exciting for you and this is our path forward.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

I loved your approach because you're not just listening to the CEO and giving him solid advice, but you're also painting that picture as well, like as to why and how and how is it going to execute. It's like the whole package. So I think a lot of times with consulting, they tell people what is missing and how to do it, but they don't say the why. So I love your approach of the whole why. I think that's really beneficial.

Segment 4: Creating Sustainable Systems

Ras Allah Contractor

So, you did say the why, and let's bring up Simon Sinek, because he had a great book out, why is important. If we understand the why, we understand why we're pushing through the difficult things. Not to be repetitive there, but we aren't going to have the fortitude to push through difficult times if we don't understand what's in it at the end of it. And again, bringing it back to being selfish but in healthy way, what's in it for me? That will help me get bigger things done and if I get bigger things done that benefit me and those around me then we're all getting bigger things done together.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

I love that. And it almost kind of segues into the next thing we're going to talk about, which is creating a sustainable system. I love Simon Sinek by the way. I think I've read his book. I'm a huge big fan. The whole why reason is one of the things I love. So I'll definitely attach one of his videos to the website, which I'll tell you guys later on after the show. So now when it comes to building processes that support wellness, how do you prevent reverting to old patterns? That's the biggest thing.

Ras Allah Contractor

Yeah, no doubt. Accountability and discipline behind that accountability is the key to most things, but specifically this. We are hardwired to revert to old patterns because it's very hard to break new patterns. It takes three or so weeks to build a new pattern, but it takes another three weeks to actually have the pattern stick. And I've noticed this in real time. I've seen it all over the place. It's hard to stick at something that doesn't feel that great for six weeks.

Now that being said, go back to our micro habits. If the habit is, for example, I'm just going to go to the gym for one week. I'm not even going to work out. I'm just going to go to the gym for one week. Well, the next week I'm going to go to the gym and I'm going to walk into the gym and then I'm going to leave. And then the third week now I'm in the gym. I'm going to do a couple of things. Echoes my roll out of bed, do pushup story from our previous episodes. You know, you do it like that. And in six weeks you're the guy who goes to the gym or you're the girl who goes to the gym and you do a workout and then you go to the next thing that you're supposed to do. Accountability. Accountability is the single biggest driver in team success and then you ramp that up with discipline around the systems that we need to be successful and Bob's your uncle. I like to say weird things.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

For accountability, I feel like that term is kind of lost in translation a lot. Because a lot of times I feel like being in so many different companies and working with so many different people, people don't take accountability seriously. I think in the old days, when we're not accountable for our actions, we get shunned by our parents and by our relatives or our best friends, right? But now as an adult, no one really goes into it because they don't want conflict. How do we, especially with this day and age as well, like how do we approach accountability? Like in the nicest way possible without, you know...

Ras Allah Contractor

No doubt. So basically it's lost, right? Accountability is difficult because conflict is also difficult. Especially if you let, now imagine letting someone get away with things for a long time, they will be shocked when they're held accountable. And that is often what I walk into is, you know, they're like, well, you're calling me out. This doesn't make sense. It doesn't compute to me. And so it is going to take kind of a reverse or a reversing back to the norm, right? Like we do have to recognize that without accountability, people are not going to behave in a way that benefits society in the long run.

You know, I'm not saying like, we can only change our environment, right? So the teams that we're around, the people that we're around, like we can say, I'm not going to put up with these behaviors, but I really enjoy these behaviors. And so if that's where we're going to exist, then I'm happy to be here. But if we're going to exist on the other side of this, then I can't be around this. And you do that on a micro level, slowly into a macro level. I have a concept of a kind army that is using sort of a guerrilla warfare tactic to spread empathy and true kindness around the world. We can't affect much more than our communities, and so we can start there.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

So with that said, what systems created the biggest ROI for your clients?

Ras Allah Contractor

You're nailing it. Easily working on your business. Doing the day to day is going to move the day to the next day, but working on your business, you know, from a strategic perspective, a succession planning perspective, from a culture perspective, those are going to have massive returns because you don't see the effect right away, but you do the work and you set up the processes and then you start to take action. And then month over month, quarter over quarter, year over year, you're going to have exponential benefits.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

And so with that, like how would you measure leadership development success?

Ras Allah Contractor

Easily with one question. Are we developing leaders at this organization in this team as part of this group? And are those leaders now developing leaders in the form and fashion that we want to see that are champions of the culture that we are building?

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

So I guess like leaders need to lead in the way where everyone follows but it's also I think the one thing that people will forget especially in leadership is that you're not supposed to be barking orders all the time. You're supposed to lead with change, yes, but you're also basically teaching your employees or your team how to lead as well. Like you're building leaders. Leaders building leaders. Does that make sense?

Ras Allah Contractor

That's the true definition of a leader is, are you developing leaders? Then you're a leader. If you're just telling people what to do, you're a manager or a boss. And that's totally different. A really great leader isn't telling you what to do. They're guiding you through your problem solving process. And they're allowing you to make mistakes, but they're not going to let you make such a big mistake that you're going to drown the ship. They're going to be there to catch you. They're going to console you when things don't go well. And they're going to remind you that you're solid and you're going to make the next decision yourself regardless.

You know, let's make sure we define the difference between a boss and a leader. A boss will tell you what to do and the leader will be helping you along your leadership journey.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

I love that. That's perfect answer.

Segment 5: Conclusion & Call to Action for Leaders

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

So, with that, there's a call to action for leaders. So, Ras, what's one leadership practice that immediately reduces team burnout?

Ras Allah Contractor

One, I will give you one. Spend time getting to know your team, but not in a way that adds to their workload. Taking them out to talk while they're in the middle of work or when they have deadlines is not the best way because it's on the schedule or because it makes sense for you. You gotta go in and figure out, hey, when's a good time for us to connect? Or you have it built into the system whereby you have the check-ins and you expect your teams to schedule their work around being able to do that. But even then, things come up. You need to be aware of the workload. If a big project is rolled out and you've got a check-in coming up in two days, you might want to double check and just say, hey, I know we just started something big. Would you like to move this check-in or did you have it scheduled in nicely? And you need to be aware of that. So you want to connect with your team on their time.

They have the space and the capacity to open up and talk about what they're going through. And then the thing about that is being regular with it. So if you have a check-in every so often, they're not planning around this. But if you have a check-in regularly, their internal emotional and psychological cycle is gearing up for that. You know what I mean? Picture this. Every year, most employees expect some type of a salary review. Now, when companies don't get ahead of that, what happens? They're just like, they didn't talk about it. They're just waiting. They're just waiting to get an answer. They're getting frustrated.

And that's just a natural thing that comes with the way money is emotional. So you want to always get ahead of the game on the salary reviews and you always want to get ahead of the game on the reviews, the performance reviews, and you want to get ahead of the game on the check-ins. And if you do that, then you're less likely to have a team that's burning out without you knowing.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

I love that. I think the most important thing is check-ins, like leadership checking in with their teams. Like, hey, there's nothing for me. I just want to say, ask, check in, how are you doing and whatnot. And I think that one-on-one check-in, doing it bi-weekly or even weekly is so helpful because not only are you understanding what the workload is from your team, but you also celebrate the little wins as well. So my next question is, how can leaders model resilience authentically?

Ras Allah Contractor

Absolutely. So resilience comes from self-care. If leaders prioritize self-care, then they can help people build the same systems for themselves. And then from there, let's take the stoic approach. Be kind when things are difficult and be gentle with those around you. But at the same time, be clear with your boundaries and hold yourself to the highest standard. So if we're kind when things are difficult and we have clear boundaries and we prioritize self-care, you have the building blocks for resilient culture.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

You know Ras, what really resonated with me from our conversation today is that leadership isn't about having all the answers or never showing vulnerability. It's about creating the conditions for others to thrive even when everything feels uncertain. Now, to our listeners who are leading teams, families, or just leading themselves through change, remember that taking care of yourself isn't selfish. It's essential.

You can't pour from an empty cup and your team needs you operating from a place of strength, not depletion. This week, I challenge you listeners to identify one area where you've been pushing too hard and experiment with Ras's approach. What would sustainable leadership look like in that situation?

Now next week, we'll bring everything together in our final episode about creating sustainable high performance. We'll explore how to build systems that support long-term success without the burnout. For all the show notes, transcriptions, and resources from today's episode, head over to c-dang.com. And if you're curious to learn more about Ras, visit his website at highlevelthink.com. And Ras, where can they find you on Instagram?

Ras Allah Contractor

Look me up, Ras Allah Contractor on Instagram. I look forward to hearing from you.

Christine "C-DANG" Dang

And so thank you, listeners, for staying with us through this series. Keep leading with integrity, keep growing, and as always, stay dang good. Much love, C-Dang signing out.